Episode 6 | Entrepreneur Spotlight – Claradele

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Episode Guests

Michael Weingarten, M.A.

In this role, Michael Weingarten, M.A., leads a team of nine Program Directors who manage all aspects of the NCI SBIR & STTR Programs including a portfolio of $182M in grants and contracts annually. The SBIR & STTR programs are NCI's engine of innovation for developing and commercializing novel technologies and products to prevent, diagnose, and treat cancer. Weingarten has implemented a set of key initiatives for optimizing the performance of the NCI SBIR Program at the NIH. These include the establishment of a new model at the NCI for managing the program - the SBIR Development Center.

Rukiyah T. Van Dross-Anderson, Ph.D.

Rukiyah T. Van Dross-Anderson, Ph.D., is the CEO and founder of NCI SBIR-funded therapeutics company, Claradele Pharmaceuticals. Her work began at East Carolina University, where she is an associate professor and the director of Graduate Programs, Pharmacology & Toxicology Concentration. Dr. Van Dross-Anderson is working to develop an effective and non-toxic drug as an alternative therapeutic regimen for melanoma patients who aren’t responsive to traditional treatments.  To attract third-party investors that would help get her innovation to get to the patients that need them, Dr. Van Dross-Anderson is working through proof-of-concept studies to demonstrate her innovation’s commercial viability. Through her participation in the NCI SBIR program, she used funding to scale up production and received entrepreneurial mentorship to navigate the complex business world. Dr. Van Dross-Anderson graduated from Rutgers University, UMDNJ-RWJMS with a doctoral degree in Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology.

Articles referenced in this episode

• Minority Biomedical Research Symposium (MBRS) program
• Minority Access to Research Careers
• Applicant Assistance Program
• I-Corps at NIH program
• NCI SBIR Women’s Innovation Network
• Office of Technology Transfer
• NCI SBIR Investor Initiative
• Small Business Transition Grant

Visit our website, sbir.cancer.gov, for the latest funding opportunities and commercialization resources to support your journey from lab to market.

Episode Transcript

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MICHAEL:  Hello and welcome to Innovation Lab, your go to resource for all things biotech startups, brought to you by the National Cancer Institute’s Small Business Innovation Research, SBIR Development Center. 

Our podcast hosts interviews with successful entrepreneurs and provides resources for small businesses looking to take their cutting edge cancer solutions from lab to market. 

I'm Michael Weingarten, the director of NCI SBIR and today's host. Today, in celebration of the Women's History Month, I'm excited to introduce our listeners to one of our women awardees, Dr. Rukiyah Van Dross-Anderson. Rukiyah is the CEO and founder of an NCI SBIR funded therapeutics company Claradele Pharmaceuticals. Her work began at East Carolina University where she is an associate professor and the Director of Graduate Programs, Pharmacology and Toxicology Concentration. 

Dr. Van Dross-Anderson is working to develop an effective and non-toxic drug as an alternative therapeutic regimen for melanoma patients who aren't responsive to traditional treatments. We will discuss her journey from post-doc to biotech startup, and share how women and underrepresented entrepreneurs with innovative cancer solutions can also leverage SBIR support to move their ideas forward. Welcome, Rukiyah.

RUKIYAH: Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

MICHAEL: Can you kind of walk us through the arc of your career and how your company Claradele was formed? 

RUKIYAH: Oh, sure. So my research career began at Alabama State University, where I was a chemistry major, and through the university, I participated in some really important programs that helped me to understand that I really love research. 

So as an undergraduate, I was in the MBRS program, which stands for a Minority Biomedical Research Symposium. I was also a MARC student, Minority Access to Research Careers, and these two programs were NIH-funded programs that gave undergraduate students an opportunity to experience research. 

And it's through that experience that I found my true love, which is research. So after graduation from my undergraduate institution, I did two post-docs, one at Vanderbilt University and the other at the University of Kansas Medical Center. It was there that I honed my skills and really learned how to become a cancer researcher. 

From there I became part of the faculty at East Carolina University as an assistant professor, and I'm now an associate professor. And so throughout these years, I was really focused on developing novel agents that were effective against cancer. And so through this process, we discovered a novel molecule which we obtained a patent for to use as a therapeutic for melanoma and other types of cancer. 

And so thereafter the question was, what do we do next? What do we do with this molecule that we've patented and how do we get it to the stage where the public has access to it or the public can use this therapeutic? And so to kind of answer that question, I started attending different workshops that discuss the different options or the different ways in which drugs can be commercialized. 

And through this experience, I chose to form my biotech company, which is called Claradele Pharmaceuticals, and this company was founded in 2020. 

MICHAEL: Got it. So you've really had an interesting journey. You know, based on the research and then deciding to start Claradele. Can you maybe tell us a little bit more about the product and the technology that you've been working on, with funding that we've been providing from NCI SBIR? 

RUKIYAH: Sure. Yeah. So what we're working on is developing a small molecule therapeutic. And this agent has the ability to kill melanoma cancer cells and also stimulate the immune system. So the action of cancer killing and stimulating the immune system are really critical for effective tumor eradication. 

And our data, thus far, indicates that we have an agent with unique and promising properties that has the ability to eliminate cancer cells. 

MICHAEL: And can you maybe talk a little bit about how your approach and your solution are a little bit different from maybe what others are pursuing or what's currently available to patients? 

RUKIYAH: So current therapeutic agents are incredible. They're much more effective than agents that were available in the past. And so these remarkable agents have the ability to cure cancers in some settings. But the problem is, is that these amazing drugs are not effective in every patient. 

So what we want to do is to develop an agent that is effective against those resistant tumors, and so provide alternative therapies for people who are not responding to the current agents that are available. 

MICHAEL: Oh, that's really interesting. So are there specific types of melanoma that your research shows your drug is more effective against, whereas the current treatments aren't effective? 

RUKIYAH: Yes, our research thus far is showing that when we use a model, that is resistant to the current therapies, our drug can work in that resistant model. In addition, we're also finding that we can help the drugs that are already available to be even more effective. 

So we're looking at our drug as a single agent and also combined with other agents to see where is our niche, where does our drug work best? 

In addition, in our future studies, we plan to test other types of melanoma, those rare melanomas to which therapeutics that are currently available are not effective, so we can foresee using this agent in the treatment of different types of melanoma. 

MICHAEL: So that's really interesting. You're kind of pursuing both the single agent approach, where you would be the primary treatment for the melanoma, but you're also looking at combination therapies. I'm curious, are you collaborating with any other companies that are also in the same space? And does it look like your drug is complimentary to their drug? 

RUKIYAH: Yes, so that's one of our next steps. We're working to identify companies that we can work with in order to do that testing. And we plan to try to use both of those agents together, yes. 

MICHAEL: And so what stage are you, are you at now? Have you optimized your leads or are you into IND enabling studies? 

RUKIYAH: So right now we're in the stage, we're in the middle of doing our proof of concept studies. And our goal here is to find out the best way to administer the drug, under which circumstances. And we also want to identify the types of tumors to which our drug responds the most effectively. 

And so, we are now approaching the stage where we're going to begin a fundraising round. And with that fundraising, what we plan to do is to use those dollars in order to fund the regulatory studies that we need to prepare for that IND meeting. 

MICHAEL: Can you maybe talk a little bit about how you think your team is uniquely positioned to succeed in terms of developing the drug? And you know, it's a long path to get a drug from the very earliest stages, where you are, all the way into the clinic, treating patients, and then ultimately out to patients and getting FDA approval. How is your team uniquely positioned to succeed, do you feel? 

RUKIYAH: You know, our team is composed of individuals who are experts in their field. We are constantly evaluating and modifying our team to make sure that we have the expertise on board when we need it. 

And so I believe, though, that our special formula is that several members on our team have a personal cancer story, and that personal cancer story helps us to stay motivated, and it helps us to use that experience, plus our talents, to keep driving this process forward. 

And you know, most people have a cancer story. And you know, to be able to use that as your passion and your motivation, to make sure that you do your best to move it forward, is the unique part of our team because most of us do have that experience. 

MICHAEL: Yeah. No, I think you guys bring a really unique perspective with that. And I agree with you, as a cancer survivor, that does provide a very special motivation and a connection with cancer patients too. Rukiyah, maybe you could also talk a little bit about your, you know, your process for applying for your NCI SBIR award. You know, did you interact with an SBIR program director before you applied? And if you did, how did that help, help you out? 

RUKIYAH: So I submitted an application for the SBIR STTR several times before it was actually funded. And I will say that in the beginning, for my first couple of submissions, I did not interact with the program director. However, on the later stages, I began interacting with the program director. 

And one of the reasons that I didn't interact with the program director initially was that I kind of felt like it might be wasting their time. I didn't want to bother them, and I was concerned that if I asked the wrong question, it might appear that I was not ready for this opportunity. 

So I chose not to do it, but that was not really the best way to go, because as I mentioned in my later submissions, I started interacting with the program officers and I can tell you it made all of the difference in the world. 

The program directors, you are not wasting their time when you call them, set up an appointment, you're not wasting their time at all. And they're very friendly, they're very helpful, and I can tell you, I learned so much from interacting with them that it really made the difference in getting that application funded. 

And so, you know, in interacting with the program directors, they gave you, they'll give you lots of helpful information. You may ask a question and you may think that you know the answer to it, but there may be more to it, and they can give you more insight into, you know, why a particular situation may be important. They may open up some other opportunities that you were not aware of, so very, very helpful to interact with your program officers. 

And I can say, in my experience, I've had wonderful program officers, like Billy Bozza, who is wonderful. And I can tell you that the most important interaction that I had, as I mentioned, I submitted my application several times, and I was at the stage where I was going to give up and I wasn't going to resubmit again. And I can tell you that he told me “Don't give up. Let's try again, you’re this close. Let's try it again and see what happens.” 

And he gave me advice that I needed to, to really focus on those issues that the reviewers thought needed to be bolstered, and again, it made all of the difference in the world. 

So interacting with your program officers can make the difference between getting the application funded and not getting it funded, part of what they do is to help you to get your proposal funded. 

MICHAEL: Yeah. No, that's really valuable feedback. And we, we actually spend probably at least a third of our time interacting with, with applicants like yourself, because it can be a really, if you haven't applied for an SBIR grant at the NIH, you know, it can seem like a tall hill to climb sometimes, but our programs there, our program directors are there to help kind of smooth things over, explain the process, explain the different parts of the application, and really advise overall on what the NIH peer reviewers tend to look for in a strong proposal. 

So we actually think that's one of the most important parts of our jobs is interacting with applicants like yourself and others, and really trying to demystify the process and making it easier too. So it's really helpful to hear that back. 

Now, did you also participate in the Applicant Assistance Program and, and if so, how did that kind of change the way you approached the application process? 

RUKIYAH: Yes, I did participate in the Applicant Assistant Program and again, it was a great program. It really helped me to compose an application that was fundable. 

So I'll start by saying that both me and my institution have limited experience with the SBIR/STTR Grant. So because of this, I had no mentorship. I didn't really know how to put this grant together because it's very different from a traditional R grant. 

And so, without that mentorship, you know, I would compose it, submit it, and you know, that's how I would get my feedback as to how to put this together. So then by participating in the AAP, the people who are administering that program have extensive experience putting these types of grants together, and so they really helped me, provided me with the guidance that I need to put a fundable application together. 

So for example, they helped me to understand what was allowable in terms of a company budget. We know as academics what's allowable as, on the budget, but on the company side it's a little bit different, so they help me to bridge my understanding of the company and the academic setting so that the budget would be set up properly. 

Another example, they helped me with other aspects of the sheets of the different forms that needed to be filled out dealing with the company side of this whole process. And they also helped me to understand what are the expectations or the most likely expectations of the reviewers. 

Again, the reviewer board is composed not only of scientists, but people who are business people, and I have no formal business training, so that helped me a lot to really refocus and think about what is expected in that grant, and the people in the AAP program helped me to understand that. 

And so also another really important thing, as we were going through this process, the program will put you on a schedule. And so with that schedule, you have deadlines and milestones, and you complete these things on time so that the package is ready well in advance of the deadline, and this is really important because we all know when you wait till the last minute, it’s really difficult to put in a good package. 

And so by setting up those deadlines, it really helped me to be able to compose it and then to be able to come back and look at it later, with a fresh mind and fresh thoughts. And so the AAP program was really, really helpful and I highly recommend it. 

MICHAEL: That's -- I think that's really valuable feedback to our listeners today. We set up the AAP program about five years ago and it really is -- it was set up to do the exactly the things that you described, which is taking applicants, as they're putting together their, their applications, and really kind of coaching them, providing a coach who can kind of guide them through the whole application process. 

I've heard from a number of companies who have gone through AAP, like yourself, that it really did help them prepare to get an award. Sometimes they had applied in the past, like, like you had, and had not been successful. But then when they went through AAP and then they, they resubmitted their proposals and they learned, you know, from the coach who was kind of guiding them, they got stronger scores when they reapplied like you did, and then we were able to give them an award, because they had strengthened their application. 

So that that's the whole goal of the Applicant Assistance Program, and for those who are interested, we're actually going to be putting on a webinar on April the 25th, talking about the Applicant Assistance Program. And you can sign up and apply to participate in, in the AAP program. So April 25th is the next date for the webinar, I encourage folks to attend that. And you can also go to our website at sbir.cancer.gov and get more information about the Applicant Assistance Program there. 

OK, moving on just a little bit, you have a background that is very similar to what our, a lot of our applicants are experiencing when they're first getting involved in SBIR, and that you come from an academic background and you were working to start up your company, I'm sure there are a lot of challenges involved in that, because, you know, you're, you're an academic by training, you were not an entrepreneur. 

So you've had to kind of learn that along the way. So maybe it would, it would be really useful to our listeners, could you maybe talk a little bit about some of the key lessons learned as you've gone through your commercialization journey? And were there -- Was there any, any coursework, like, for example, the I-Corps program that you were able to tap into in order to give you the kind of information you needed to help as you were building your company?

RUKIYAH: So yes, key lessons learned. I learned a lot of lessons in developing a company. As I mentioned, I have no formal business training, but what I did to kind of understand the basics of business is to attend lots of different workshops. Those workshops provided me with some information about business, about drug development. 

And then, what I started doing is to partner with people who are experts, so I don't have to be the business professional. But what my goal is, is to learn enough about business to understand with the business partners are talking about, and also to be able to contribute to the decision making process. 

And so that's my goal with learning about business, and I use the skills that we use as academics all the time and collaborate. Collaborate, bring people in who have the expertise that you need, rather than trying to be a professional or to be in a position that you really don't have the qualifications for. And so that's been my approach for making this happen. 

And so another thing that I've learned about business is that business is quite different from academia. In academia, we plan, we, we aim for perfection, and we have a route, and we try to stay with it and pivot when the science takes us there. 

In the business world, it’s a lot different. And I think the general mentality is that you are going to make mistakes. And so as, as was mentioned, you know business is new for me. So I've made mistakes and the idea is mistakes are expected. And when you make those mistakes, you just pick up and keep moving forward. 

The key is to have people around you who understand the business and know how to mitigate those mistakes and keep moving forward. 

MICHAEL: Yeah, I think those are, those are excellent lessons. There, there is a program, in addition to the valuable training that you were able to seek out in the -- and the mentors you were able to seek out on your own, NIH also offers a program called Innovation Corps or I-Corps, and it's open right now to companies that have an SBIR at the NIH, whether it's at NCI or a different institute. 

And it's really kind of like a boot camp to help companies learn how to put together a business strategy around the technology that they're developing. 

So it's a 10 week program we bring in instructors who are experts in areas like therapeutics, devices, diagnostics, and they are there to help guide the participants in going through that program. We have found that I-Corps has really helped launch a lot of our companies and really advanced through the development process. And it really does that through companies learning what the value proposition, and where their, where their technology can really make an impact and solve an unmet need. So I encourage folks to go up on our website and look for information about I-Corps program, I-C-O-R-P-S. 

RUKIYAH: So you're absolutely correct. The I-Corps is a wonderful program. I also participated in this program as well and it helped me to identify the specific niche of my product. So where does your product fit in this vast market of products that offer to do similar things? 

So I-Corps is really important to help you really fine tune your commercialization plan. And you know, I've also participated in other programs that I think are really, really important. For example, the SBIR-STTR workshops and road shows, man, those are some great programs. 

And I'll say that I've attended these programs over and over again because each time that I go or I participate, I learn something new. And it reminds you of all of the options that are available to really push your product forward. So it's a great idea to really attend these workshops and pick up as much knowledge as you can in order to push, push your technology forward. 

Also, once your grant is funded, I would like to recommend the Women's Innovation Network or WIN. That's a great program. It provides a supportive community of female SBIR-STTR recipients. It provides mentoring. We have speakers who talk about different aspects of commercialization, and it provides an opportunity for female investigators to network with each other, and to be a little vulnerable. And by being vulnerable, we can help each other, and so I recommend that as well. 

I'd also like to recommend, for those who are seeking to develop a business, a biotechnology business for their laboratory discoveries, you may have some local resources that you can tap into. Many states have different biotechnology professional organizations that put on workshops and they -- some provide funding. And they provide different types of education about entrepreneurship. 

So there may be some local organizations that you can also take part in, in order to learn, to build your business. And I would probably start to find out about if your state has a similar organization. Maybe start in your office of technology transfer, because that's the location where, in academia, that's kind of the line between academia and the commercial environment. So I would start there to find out if there are some local organizations that can also help you to get where you need to go. 

MICHAEL: Yeah. And really thanks so much for bringing some of these programs up. Rukiyah. One of the things that I like to talk about, when I talk about our SBIR program is, I think people understand that SBIR provides funding, which is obviously the most critical element. 

The way I like to think of it is it's necessary, obviously, but it's not sufficient. You know, you’re small business, you need funding obviously, but you need access to a whole range of different resources in addition to funding. So that's one of the things that separates the NCI SBIR program, I think, from others in that we really put a lot of time into thinking about and creating resource programs that our companies need. 

So just as an example, you mentioned I-Corps, that was one program we created here at NCI SBIR for the NIH as a whole. But we also offer our Investor Initiatives Program, too, where we are able to connect companies that we're funding through our SBIR program with private investors. 

So that, you know, as you're developing your drug, you're in the earlier stages now, you're obviously going to need to go out and raise additional capital. Because we're the NCI, we're able to develop relationships with some of the largest investors around the country, whether that's large pharmaceutical companies or some of the large venture capital funds around the country that invest in the cancer space. 

So once a year, we invite all the companies that we are funding in our portfolio to go through our Investor Initiatives Program. And that's an opportunity for you to put together a short application, which will then be reviewed by a panel of investors. 

And then those investors help us identify companies that are ready to go out and present and pitch their technology to, to other investors in order to help raise capital. And then we also do pitch coaching, to help, to help prepare our companies to, to go out and present. 

RUKIYAH: I can say that that's really important because in this current climate, it's very difficult to raise funds. So having that edge, having those connections would be very helpful. 

MICHAEL: I was wondering, maybe you could provide some advice. You mentioned the WIN Program as an example, you know, a program that we offer to women entrepreneurs in our program, and give them the opportunity to come together and really kind of share lessons learned. 

In addition to that, do you have any other advice for women in academia who want to transfer their technology and really kind of start that journey towards a start up?

RUKIYAH: Sure. You know, the first thing that I would say is that this is very doable. It's doable because women have some ingrained properties that are really conducive to making this happen. For example, our ability to multitask is very important and very critical for getting this job done. 

And so the job of transferring the technology into the commercial space takes a lot of multitasking. You can work with different people in order to get things done. Collaboration, that's also another property that we have as academics, and so we can collaborate with people in order to get things done. 

And so for me personally, one of the things that I had to resist was the urge to be Superwoman. And so for me, what I usually try to do is do everything myself and, you know, try to achieve it all by myself, and that's really not the way to go. 

What you - What is successful is to collaborate and delegate in order to achieve your goals. So that's one of the things that I would say that we really have to do as women, collaborate, don't try to do it all, find the experts and let the experts do what they know how to do. 

And then finally, I would say in terms of advice for women, I would say ask for what you want. Sometimes we don't like to ask and -- ask people for help or ask for resources, but you have to ask, all, all that can be said is either yes or no. So just ask and if the answer is no, try another route and keep moving forward. Don't take it personally, just keep moving forward. 

MICHAEL: I really think that's -- I think -- I really think that's excellent advice. There's, there's another program really focusing on academics doing the research, developing a technology who are interested in making that transition. There's another program that we offer called the Small Business Transition Grant. 

It's a fairly new program, not a lot of folks are, are aware of it, but we're really trying to, to increase the awareness of that program and that, that program, we actually developed in response to conversations we were having with our cancer centers from across the country, where we were trying to figure out what can the NCI do to facilitate the translation of academic technologies and to get more technologies out of the lab and into small companies. 

And one of the key funding gaps that they told us was existing, was that it was really hard for early career academics, like post-docs, to raise funds. You know, there was kind of a dearth of funding when, when you're really at the early stages in your career trying to raise funding. 

So the Small Business Transition Grant actually is focused on, on post-docs and other early career academics, and it will provide funding to them while they're still at the university, both for their research as well as funding for both a technical mentor and a business mentor. 

And the whole goal is to provide kind of the, the support that that early-career academic needs, you know, sounds -- and it sounds like you were kind of in that same situation, but the goal is to provide funding as well as mentorship support to that early-career academic to help them as they're looking to move their technology out of a university to a small business. 

You can apply for either just a Phase 1 application or you can go for a combined Phase 1/Phase 2 application. And the funding will support the academic, first at the university, and then as they move their technology to a company, and they move -- and they advance that technology to a Phase 2, it'll continue that same support. 

So, it's another program that we have tried to tailor to the needs of you and other academics that are out there looking to apply. And, again, we have information about the Small Business Transition Grant up on our website at sbir.cancer.gov. 

We're actually going to be launching that program for the coming year sometime in, in March. So if you're interested in that, and I encourage everyone to, again, go up on our website to get more information and talk to a program director, reach out to us, send us an e-mail, and we're happy to give you more information about that program. 

RUKIYAH: Sounds like a really interesting project. I think it's a great idea because young -- Generation Z, Young investigators, they want to own businesses, a very different mentality from previous generations. So this type of program sounds like it would be really great to help to launch their ideas and their businesses in the biotech space. 

MICHAEL: Absolutely. And that's what we're trying to do with that, that program right now. It's, again, it's still a fairly young program, so we're, we're trying to, we're trying to talk about it a little bit more with folks like yourself to just kind of raise visibility that that's, that's a funding opportunity that an academic who's interested in moving to a small business, maybe creating their own small business, it's a funding opportunity that's, that's available to help to, to help support them on that. 

Well, this has been great. I've really enjoyed our conversation. I wanted to ask you just one last question, and that's, is there one piece of advice that you'd like to leave folks with before we leave today regarding, you know, your journey or their journey as they're looking to start it? 

RUKIYAH: Sure. I would say the best piece of advice that I can give is to use your skills that you have acquired as an academic researcher to start and grow your company. The skills that are necessary to make this work include:  collaboration, persistence. You have to be persistent, networking. And so you can also use your passion, what is it that you really feel passionate about in order to keep the process moving forward? 

And then I would also advise you to take advantage of the resources that are available to help you with commercialization of biotechnology products. I would also say, as you mentioned, this is a very long drawn out process. So I would advise you to know what the process is, but don't focus on the big picture, focus on your milestones, because if you get focused on how big this whole process is, it's discouraging, right, and it may prevent you from moving forward. 

So just break your process up into milestones, achieve your next milestone, and, and view it from that perspective, rather than being focused on all that needs to be done. And I think that that has been really helpful to me to just kind of take this at small pieces. 

MICHAEL: Excellent advice, break it down step-by-step and if you can work on it step-by-step, then it's not such an overwhelming kind of thing, you know, set your goals, achieve that one goal, and move to the next one. 

Well, this has been wonderful. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you for taking the time. And I know it's going to be really valuable to a lot of the folks out in the community who are interested in coming back and applying for NCI SBIR. We look forward to working together with you in the future. And again, thank you. 

RUKIYAH: Thank you so much for inviting me to talk. I hope that some of the information that I've shared will be helpful to someone. And it is great to be part of a community of people who are really devoted to developing cancer chemotherapeutics. And again, I just thank you for the invitation. 

MICHAEL: Thank you. Thanks so much Rukiyah for speaking with us today. We really look forward to seeing Claradele’s continued growth and making positive patient impact. As always, don't forget to check out our website, sbir.cancer.gov, for the latest funding opportunities and commercialization resources to support your journey from lab to market. 

This was Michael Weingarten from NCI SBIR. Please join us again for the next installment of NCI SBIR Innovation Lab and subscribe today wherever you listen. 

If you have questions about cancer or comments about this podcast, e-mail us at nciinfo@nih.gov or call us at 1-800-422-6237 and please be sure to mention Innovation Lab in your query. 

We are a production of the US Department of Health and Human Services, National Institutes of Health, National Cancer Institute. Thanks so much for listening. 

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